Post by Christopher Martin on Sept 19, 2016 1:10:37 GMT
Just to close out this week's discussion:
Yes, it is important to remember that The Aeneid is primarily an epic poem, meant more oral presentation as opposed to literary reading. Therefore, the detail and richness, though interesting, is often overly done in order to give the listener something more on which to focus. In other words, think of your favorite song and the message(s) it carries: is every single line, every single word essential to the message? Generally speaking, no: songs and poems alike require a degree of filler material in order to maintain tempo, flow, and (sometimes) proper rhyming.
The point about the god's is excellent: there is sometimes almost as much going on with the gods as there is with the subject's main story (Aeneas). There is one (related) point, however, that I would like to underline in order to make sure that we don't miss it: a change of the relationship with the gods. Consider this passage, for example, in which Aeneas complains to his mother (the goddess Venus) that she ought not be disguising herself from him: "'You! cruel, too! / Why tease your son so often with disguises? / Why may we not join hands and speak and hear / The simple truth?'" (I:558-561) Consider also the passage in Book II: 76-80, where Aeneas suggests that, if not for the gods' making the humans's minds "crazed," Troy would still be standing. These are just two examples in The Aeneid where I think we begin to see a breakdown of the relationship between gods and men. In Homer's The Iliad, the god's are petty, but nobody challenges that they are in charge. In The Aeneid, on the other hand there is something different entirely. At the very most, human beings are able to create the own fate. At the very least, they are vocally annoyed with the role that the god's play in their world.
I'm also glad we opened a discussion on the role of women in this story: mortal women, even more so than mortal men, are often simply used as tools of the god's to accomplish their will. Dido is certainly the best example, but we could highlight other examples as well, such as when the Trojan women are seduced by the gods into setting fire to Aeneas' fleet, and also when the Latin queen similarly falls victim into impeding Aeneas by calling for war against the Trojans. Obviously, we'll have to keep an eye on this theme to see how/if it develops, and what significance it might have. Keep your eyes open!
Finally, I want to point out that this week, being our first, was just an adjustment period . . . late posts, and an improper number of posts will be forgiven, and I'll even take the time to say that I think that this first week was a pretty good start. In the future, however, let's try to get things in on time, and to try to keep discussions threads going longer than just one reply. Remember: 2 CONVERSATION STARTERS, EACH WITH THEIR OWN DISCUSSION THREAD, ARE DUE FROM EACH STUDENT BY WEDNESDAY 7PM PST, AND AT LEAST ONE REPLY TO EACH OTHER'S DISCUSSION THREADS ARE DUE BY FRIDAY 7PM PST. Obviously, I encourage discussions to go on longer, and your grade(s) will benefit from that as well.
Yes, it is important to remember that The Aeneid is primarily an epic poem, meant more oral presentation as opposed to literary reading. Therefore, the detail and richness, though interesting, is often overly done in order to give the listener something more on which to focus. In other words, think of your favorite song and the message(s) it carries: is every single line, every single word essential to the message? Generally speaking, no: songs and poems alike require a degree of filler material in order to maintain tempo, flow, and (sometimes) proper rhyming.
The point about the god's is excellent: there is sometimes almost as much going on with the gods as there is with the subject's main story (Aeneas). There is one (related) point, however, that I would like to underline in order to make sure that we don't miss it: a change of the relationship with the gods. Consider this passage, for example, in which Aeneas complains to his mother (the goddess Venus) that she ought not be disguising herself from him: "'You! cruel, too! / Why tease your son so often with disguises? / Why may we not join hands and speak and hear / The simple truth?'" (I:558-561) Consider also the passage in Book II: 76-80, where Aeneas suggests that, if not for the gods' making the humans's minds "crazed," Troy would still be standing. These are just two examples in The Aeneid where I think we begin to see a breakdown of the relationship between gods and men. In Homer's The Iliad, the god's are petty, but nobody challenges that they are in charge. In The Aeneid, on the other hand there is something different entirely. At the very most, human beings are able to create the own fate. At the very least, they are vocally annoyed with the role that the god's play in their world.
I'm also glad we opened a discussion on the role of women in this story: mortal women, even more so than mortal men, are often simply used as tools of the god's to accomplish their will. Dido is certainly the best example, but we could highlight other examples as well, such as when the Trojan women are seduced by the gods into setting fire to Aeneas' fleet, and also when the Latin queen similarly falls victim into impeding Aeneas by calling for war against the Trojans. Obviously, we'll have to keep an eye on this theme to see how/if it develops, and what significance it might have. Keep your eyes open!
Finally, I want to point out that this week, being our first, was just an adjustment period . . . late posts, and an improper number of posts will be forgiven, and I'll even take the time to say that I think that this first week was a pretty good start. In the future, however, let's try to get things in on time, and to try to keep discussions threads going longer than just one reply. Remember: 2 CONVERSATION STARTERS, EACH WITH THEIR OWN DISCUSSION THREAD, ARE DUE FROM EACH STUDENT BY WEDNESDAY 7PM PST, AND AT LEAST ONE REPLY TO EACH OTHER'S DISCUSSION THREADS ARE DUE BY FRIDAY 7PM PST. Obviously, I encourage discussions to go on longer, and your grade(s) will benefit from that as well.